Curse

Snow Bunny · Mar 28, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

You people don't need more PvE skills.

You already have Godmode. Go play with that, seriously.

HawkofStorms · Mar 28, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

An excellent idea. PvE skills are supposed to be overpowered so this makes sense.
One big problem that I see though.

There would A) be no way to prevent you from having both charm animal and this on the same bar at once (would this mean you'd get two pets?)
B) would that mean you'd have to charm a new pet with this skill (ie, I couldn't use "my" pet with this new PvE skill, but would have to charm a new one using this skill... or would it just "take" the one I charmed with charm animal).

upier · Mar 28, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by TempusReborn

Alright I see this as likely as Triple Bergen Spring Drops Weekend but if we were going to try and make a non-exploitable version of a skill:

Call Reinforcements: (10 Energy, 1/2 Cast Time, 60 Second Recharge)
Skill: For 5 times your Rank in Beast mastery Seconds your Animal Companion appears to help. He strikes for +2...24..30 Damage and attacks 33% Faster. If your pet dies while under the effect of this skill, it's instantly recharged.

Why Like this? A) Ursans atm tend to occasionally bring Pets - this skill shouldn't allow them to permanently have a powerful pet no matter what their Beast Mastery.

B) Problem with a PvE Skill not linked to a stat someway is that its likely it wouldn't be mostly rangers using it.

C) This skill is an alternative to bringing both charm and comfort: It meshes with the other BM Skills however

So that would be:
normal attack damage + 30 (max) + damage skills + 33% faster?
Doesn't this make it a tiny bit insane? For a more reasonable skill that is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yol

There have been a number of threads in the past asking for charm and comfort to be combined. Gaile has even supported the idea in the threads. As much as I would welcome the combining of these skills, if an insider like Gaile can't get her way over this, I doubt the general playing public will.

Was that pre-PvE skills or after?
I mean seriously - after SY+TntF+Ursan there is very little that could be even more out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

You people don't need more PvE skills.

You already have Godmode. Go play with that, seriously.

Why would I play with something that isn't fun?
It's PvE we are talking about!
I am running a BM build on my ritualist because:
1. of his cute outfit
2. because the pet is cute
3. because the casting animation of a ritualist throwing a spear is INSANELY godly (it's much cuter then wielding a bow so he isn't using that)
4. I like ritualists

The same reason why I am currently not running Ursan. My char doesn't morph into a bear. And I hate that!

Fun, fun, fun!
PvE, PvE, PvE!

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

An excellent idea. PvE skills are supposed to be overpowered so this makes sense.
One big problem that I see though.

There would A) be no way to prevent you from having both charm animal and this on the same bar at once (would this mean you'd get two pets?)
B) would that mean you'd have to charm a new pet with this skill (ie, I couldn't use "my" pet with this new PvE skill, but would have to charm a new one using this skill... or would it just "take" the one I charmed with charm animal).

That's just INSANE!
I LOVE it!

But seriously - multiple pets ... *drools and remembers of the time playing a Druid in NWN*
Ahh good times!

And yeah - that's exactly what the point of this is.
IF a PvE skill isn't overpowered (that is if we can even define what overpowered in PvE is!) then it won't see any use! It might as well not exist!

shru · Mar 28, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

You people don't need more PvE skills.

You already have Godmode. Go play with that, seriously.

Someone has some serious PVE vs. PvP issues, but since this is neither the time nor the thread, I suggest you take them else where.

And I don't think Anet needs to make a new skill, changing the functionality of Never Rampage Alone would be a great option. There were a couple great ideas earlier on that would prob work better than mine, but again, they could also be incorporated into a skill overhaul.

Snow Bunny · Mar 28, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Why would I play with something that isn't fun?
It's PvE we are talking about!
I am running a BM build on my ritualist because:
1. of his cute outfit
2. because the pet is cute
3. because the casting animation of a ritualist throwing a spear is INSANELY godly (it's much cuter then wielding a bow so he isn't using that)
4. I like ritualists

The same reason why I am currently not running Ursan. My char doesn't morph into a bear. And I hate that!

Fun, fun, fun!
PvE, PvE, PvE!

I guess since you want it to tailor to a build and not for overpowered bullshit, I'll /sign. I guess I read you wrong.

Nightmares Hammer · Mar 28, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I am running a BM build on my ritualist because:
1. of his cute outfit
2. because the pet is cute
3. because the casting animation of a ritualist throwing a spear is INSANELY godly (it's much cuter then wielding a bow so he isn't using that)

These are the reasons Rits are shunned in PvE.

Channel_V93 · Mar 28, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

I don't know if it's been said but if it would be a PvE skill that means that any X/X where X isn't Ranger could have a pet and heal it with no attribute investment at all.

upier · Mar 28, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I guess since you want it to tailor to a build and not for overpowered bullshit, I'll /sign. I guess I read you wrong.

Ohh it would be overpowered by definition! That's the whole point of actually bringing a PvE skill. I mean - look at CoP. It's pretty much better then all mesmer elites in PvE.
It's just bad that they missed out the opportunity to actually give us an overpowered skill we actually WANT rather then giving us overpowered crap that nobody cares about!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightmares Hammer

These are the reasons Rits are shunned in PvE.

That's why I play with H/H only (well unless people need my help - then I "try" to behave).
I have fun - and the guys bring in what I lack in their builds.
A win-win situation!
And like I said - it's PvE! My instance - my game!
Why would I run around with insanely powerful skills that aren't fun IF I can achieve the same result with FUN skills (whose effectiveness might be highly questionable though)?
You're taking PvE WAY to seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Channel_V93

I don't know if it's been said but if it would be a PvE skill that means that any X/X where X isn't Ranger could have a pet and heal it with no attribute investment at all.

No need for that. I mean look at Triple Shot, Spear Of Fury, Club Of Thousand Bears. Bow, Spear, Melee attack.
The same thing could be done for this kind of PvE skill. The damage the pet does could scale with an investment in BM. TntF/Seed Of Life/Critical Agility style.

Edit:
Since I am on my knees begging for mercy to give us something sweet - I politely take back my statement about "giving us crap we don't care about".

Nightmares Hammer · Mar 28, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

No need for that. I mean look at Triple Shot, Spear Of Fury, Club Of Thousand Bears. Bow, Spear, Melee attack.
The same thing could be done for this kind of PvE skill. The damage the pet does could scale with an investment in BM. TntF/Seed Of Life/Critical Agility style.

We don't need more PvE skills.

kthxbai.

upier · Mar 28, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightmares Hammer

We don't need more PvE skills.

kthxbai.

That's why I suggested to REPLACE one of the current ones.

Nightmares Hammer · Mar 28, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yol

There have been a number of threads in the past asking for charm and comfort to be combined. Gaile has even supported the idea in the threads. As much as I would welcome the combining of these skills, if an insider like Gaile can't get her way over this, I doubt the general playing public will.

As you can see, Gaile couldn't make it happnen, so what makes you think you can?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

UM, yeah, Charm Animal is for balance.

Your pet is basically an extra attacker/attack skill, the Charm Animal slot is your penalty for the extra damage, like with "Frenzy" the draw back id double dmg. It's how everything works

No need to make one skill that does it all, even if it's just for PvE only

EXACTLY. We don't need more unbalanced skills.

upier · Mar 28, 2008, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightmares Hammer

As you can see, Gaile couldn't make it happnen, so what makes you think you can?

Because ... I have the power!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightmares Hammer

EXACTLY. We don't need more unbalanced skills.

Balance in PvE?
Yeah - Molotov hitting me for 1k damage is REALLY balanced. Or half casting time in HM ...
(But this is getting way off so I'll leave it at that ...)

Of course - you ARE entitled to your opinion. And by posting this I agreed to listen to different opinions.
I am just here giving back some feedback - beats bitching in silence (which is what I normally do

)!

Nightmares Hammer · Mar 28, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Because ... I have the power!

After that do you really think anyone will take "your" idea seriously?

I mean seriously?

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

half casting time in HM

Yep, that's Hard Mode for you.

HawkofStorms · Mar 28, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightmares Hammer

After that do you really think anyone will take "your" idea seriously?

I mean seriously?

Yep, that's Hard Mode for you.

Could you maybe... stop trolling?

Your entire contribuition to this thread has been "PvE skills suck, we don't need more of them."

If you don't have anything else to contribute (to either side of the arguement), please just stop. I don't mind people disagreeing with each other. Just if you are going to debate an issue at least do so in a way that creates a defendable position.

Nightmares Hammer · Mar 28, 2008, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Could you maybe... stop trolling?

Your entire contribuition to this thread has been "PvE skills suck, we don't need more of them."

If you don't have anything else to contribute (to either side of the arguement), please just stop. I don't mind people disagreeing with each other. Just if you are going to debate an issue at least do so in a way that creates a defendable position.

Um... No. I have been contributing, although it's hard to when the person i'm trying to debate with is posting stupid pictures and can't actually find a plausible reason for "his" idea.

Also, what did that post bring to this thread? Nothing.

FoxBat · Mar 28, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

So what exactly do people have against thumpers?

I rather like taking an elite attack instead of Rampage As One all the time, thanks to NRA. It has half the upkeep and a bit of healing to boot. This is far from what we would call a "bad skill".

Nightmares Hammer · Mar 28, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

So what exactly do people have against thumpers?

I rather like taking an elite attack instead of Rampage As One all the time, thanks to NRA. It has half the upkeep and a bit of healing to boot. This is far from what we would call a "bad skill".

Yes, but this has been brought up before, Gaile asked but it was a no... That was my main point but the OP just ignored it completely. Then i was called a troll...

Phoenix Tears · Mar 28, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

lolz, ya alot of those pve only skills are more or less bullshit, they could be also total normal skills, os weak and useless are they.

Many of them were listed here, like Winds, Club of 1000 Bears, Radiation Field ect.

Instead of implementing such bull shit, anet should start finally looking more into the forums at the countless threads about our ideas for concept skills.

The community together posts daily hundreds over hundreds of concept skills, which are together a million times more nice, more useful and better thought out, with way better sounding names for the skills ect pp. than most of the skills GW has...

(looks at those stupid clone skills of GW of other existign Skills, looks also at those many totally retarded useless Elite-Skills, which are absolutely not worth it to be called an Elite Skill at all...)

Never Rampage Alone should receive seriously this very nice buff.

Never Rampage Alone - 25E ect. stay the same.

For the next xx-yy Seconds you and your Pets will receive a Life Regeneration of + x-y, and will attack xx% quicker. You can tame with this Skill 1-3 Pets and this Skill can't be combined with "Charm Animal". When you use this Skill on a dead Pet, the Pet will be revived with 25% of its max HP and all your Non-Attack Skills will be disabled for 10-5 Seconds.

When you want to have your pets at your side, this skill must be in your bar, like Charm animal. This way would receive finally Rangers for pvE only the possibilty, that they need and deserve, to have more, than 1 Pet. and BM will become finally an Attribute, that will be really worth it to be played, because it sucked ballz from the begin on, that Rangers could have never more than 1 Pet, thus being ever only Wannabe-Beast Masters ...

Real Masters of Beast Mastery tame more than only 1 pet and fight with more than 1 pet together, thats what I ever said and will ever say about BM, because its simple correct so. We know all, how BM's look in other games - do have players in other similar games like GW to be happy there, with beign able to have only max 1 pet ??? Hell no.

I know it would be overpowered for PvP, if rangers could have more, than 1 Pet, but who the **** cares about this for PvE... in PvE we want to have FUN !!!!! and BM with 3 pets is FUN. Lots of incredible Fun!!!! and as long its for PvE only, there will be nothing imba about it, about anyone could whine about, that it can pwn anyones noobish butt.

The Skill will be linked to NO attribute, as it is now, just to the sun spear title, so with R10 sunspear, you can have 3 pets.
I think this should be really anyones biggest wet dream to play a Ranger, which runs around with a Rainbow Phoenix, a Black Widdow from UW and a Black Moa from Echowald ...or a White Moa ect. (insert any other pet here)

I would find this simple super cool for PvE.

increase for PvE after that than also the retarded limit for necro minions back to unendless, as long enough corpses are there, and then will make MM's also again so muhc fun, as they made in old days ....

or at least increase the limit from 10 to 20, 10 is really stupid... necros and especially MM's really got still enough nerfed in the point about their gameplay fun factur, though nerfing soul reaping to give only 3x per 15 secs energy only -.- really such shit why I hate those pvp whiners for, where pve had really to suffer for, only because people in pvp are unable to create counter builds, that everythign has to be nerfed to death first, before there is silence...
Or is it more the inability of anet to give pvp'ers good enough skills to be able to create counter builds anyway ? Who knows, but the fact that pve has ever to suffer 1st in kind of the gameplay fun factor sux!!

These things are the reason, why we have such skills, like Ursan Blessing, because Anet is too lazy or too unable, to fix certain things in a better way.

They ever go only the way, that is MOST EASIEST, instead of the way, that is MOST USEFUL AND MAKES MOST SENSE and that gets over time really annoying ...

TempusReborn · Mar 28, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Okay Multiple Pets I think is a bit Hectic

To Magehunter, Look even with the Skill how originally posted it a Beast Master Build would be something you brought for Fun. At best. The Damage is still weak on a Beastmaster: He's having to put all his points into BMing to keep his Pet So the pet is all his damage - and its still not something for HM. So like....stop trolling.

upier · Mar 28, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightmares Hammer

After that do you really think anyone will take "your" idea seriously?
I mean seriously?

I think the people who wanted to take it seriously - TOOK it seriously (as shown by the replies).
Maybe people also got a laugh out of me taking a mickey out of myself. At least I'd hope so. Because that was the point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightmares Hammer

Yep, that's Hard Mode for you.

A skill is defined by it's effect, cost, activation time, recharge, type AND it's comparison to other skills.
So in HM - where those various factors are bypassed - where is the balance in that? So if the skills are unbalanced, the foes act in an unbalanced fashion - why should the players strive for balance under those conditions?
Heck - why bother with HM. Blackout Shiro in NM. He won't lose his skills for the defined time. Which means that foes function under different rules or that it IS a bug.
And how can the foes function under different rules IF the skills are balanced for a set of very specific rules?
To bring up balance in PvE - and to base an argument on it - just shows the complete lack of understanding of PvE.
NO, a skill used by the player can NOT be overpowered in PvE. At least not in the traditional sense. Because the point of PvE is for the player to win - compared to PvP where the point of EACH team is to win. Thus balance must exist to offer both sides an equal playing field. Once again - compared to PvE - where the player needs to win. Thus everything that is in his/hers advantage IS fine. So, NOTHING can be overpowered by default.

Yes, as I have stated many times - this would be "overpowered".
BUT that is exactly what the point of PvE skills is. Thus my suggestion is completely in line with the definition of a PvE only skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightmares Hammer

Yes, but this has been brought up before, Gaile asked but it was a no... That was my main point but the OP just ignored it completely. Then i was called a troll...

Was the suggestion made to create a PvE skill?
Or was the suggestion made towards Charm?
Do we have a quote on that?
Date?
What the suggestion was?
What the official answer was?
Can Gaile even suggest skill changes? I mean - in a way that is listened to?
Or was the statement more in the lines of "Oh yeah! I'd LOVE for Charm to rez too! And yeah - I asked for charmable bunnies also! Now let's conga!"?

Can we get more info on that?

I didn't ignore it. I just didn't give it much thought because there is not much to think about.